Francis G. Lange

Print Friendly, PDF & EmailPrint Friendly
Francis G. Lange Oral History Interview

Interviewer: John Morrison (1987), Crater Lake National Park historian and Stephen Mark (1988), Crater Lake National Park historian

Interview Location and Date: At Francis Lange’s residence in Vacaville, California, August 8, 1987 and September 13, 1988

Transcription: Transcribed by Darci Desharnals Gomolski, 1992-93

Biographical Summary: Lange, Francis G. Junior landscape architect 1929-31, resident landscape architect 1934-40. Died 1998.

It is an understatement to say that Francis Lange is a rich source of information about the NPS landscape of the 1930’s.  Mr. Lange’s association with Crater Lake National Park began in 1930 as a young landscape architect based in San Francisco. He became the park’s landscape architect in 1933 under the Emergency Conservation Work program, the source of funds for the Civilian Conservation Corps.  His summers were spent at the park until 1940 when he accepted a permanent appointment is San Francisco.  Mr. Lange left the National Park Service in 1943.

Since this interview was conducted, Mr. Lange has assisted me and the regional project teams from the Seattle office in a number of was.  He has granted us numerous telephone interviews, loaned photographs, and visited Crater Lake several times so that I could talk with him.  Three publications, The Rustic Landscape of Rim Village (1990),Cultural Landscape Recommendations, Park Headquarters at Munson Valley (1991),Cultural Landscape Inventory, Oregon Caves National Monument (1992) are testimony to his help.

This oral history interview is actually two interviews.  The first was conducted by my predecessor, John Morrison, shortly after Mr. Lange’s wife had died.  I did a follow up interview the following year, which included the taped session presented here.  During the time I visited Vacaville, I was fortunate enough a have spent several afternoons taking notes from our conversations and reading his masters thesis.

Materials Associated with this interview on file at the Dick Brown library at Crater Lake National Park’s Steel Visitor Center: Taped interview; correspondence and documents, as well as notes from telephone conversations and visits at Park Headquarters 1988-94. Francis G. Lange donated a number of photos to park collections; file contains some prints and photocopies of others. Slide of him taken at the 1988 interview, portrait c. 19361 in park photo file.

 

To the reader:

It is an understatement to say that Francis Lange is a rich source of information about the NPS landscape of the 1930’s.  Mr. Lange’s association with Crater Lake National Park began in 1930 as a young landscape architect based in San Francisco. He became the park’s landscape architect in 1933 under the Emergency Conservation Work program, the source of funds for the Civilian Conservation Corps.  His summers were spent at the park until 1940 when he accepted a permanent appointment is San Francisco.  Mr. Lange left the National Park Service in 1943.

Since this interview was conducted, Mr. Lange has assisted me and the regional project teams from the Seattle office in a number of was.  He has granted us numerous telephone interviews, loaned photographs, and visited Crater Lake several times so that I could talk with him.  Three publications, The Rustic Landscape of Rim Village (1990),Cultural Landscape Recommendations, Park Headquarters at Munson Valley (1991),Cultural Landscape Inventory, Oregon Caves National Monument (1992) are testimony to his help.

This oral history interview is actually two interviews.  The first was conducted by my predecessor, John Morrison, shortly after Mr. Lange’s wife had died.  I did a follow up interview the following year, which included the taped session presented here.  During the time I visited Vacaville, I was fortunate enough a have spent several afternoons taking notes from our conversations and reading his masters thesis.  The field notes, as well as other material, are in the park’s history files.

Stephen R. Mark

(Crater Lake National Park Historian)

December 1993

 

Dear Steve,

Thank you for your welcome letter of 22 December, 1992. I would have answered sooner but been away from Vacaville.

I enjoyed reading the interview by John Morrison in 8/8/87. It was my first opportunity to read the material. I remember at the time that my dear wife Burnaze was dying of cancer. (She died 9/16/87). I was not feeling too good at the time. Thanks for letting my read the material. I more than approve the material.

The report 13 September, 1988 was very interesting. Some of the questions you asked were very good. I answered to the best of my memory. I was somewhat vague in my response to the questions. The questions were interesting and of intelligent thought.

In some of my comments I was not too certain of myself and might have appeared to be irritated pardon me for using the “Oh hell” remark. You did an excellent job asking me those questions. I also approve this interesting report of 13 September, 1988.

Regarding the Crater Lake Lodge Entrance dated 14 September, 1931, I did not make the drawing. I believe either Scofield Long or Lyle Skidmore of San Francisco did the drawing.

On 24 September, 1992, I sent Superintendent Dave Morris material and a photograph to his office. I had had no reply.

I regret that I could not attend the Crater Lake 90th Year Celebration. Although I sent information on Crater Lake to Frank Lange, Chairman, I was somewhat surprised that he did not reply.

Steve, I have enjoyed working with you the past five years. You have done an outstanding job. Thanks for the Oregon Caves report. I hope to be in Oregon this spring. Will keep you informed.

Sincerely,

Signed by Francis G. Lange

Interview with Francis G. Lange

Chief Landscape Architect

Crater Lake National Park 1933-1940

By John Morrison, National Park Service Historian

Vacaville, California 8/8/87

I think it a great honor to be able to record what little information I have to give.  But, my first experience with the Park Service occurred in 1922 when I got a job at Yellowstone National Park as a “pack rat” working at the Mammoth Lodge.  That summer of 1922 created my first interest in the Park Service and the wonderful opportunity I saw ahead of me to become one to participate in this program. I continued my summer experience of 1923 I worked again at Yellowstone National Park.  Then, that winter I decided to go to Yosemite and I went to Yosemite in 1924 and worked at Camp Curry as a night watchman. I had the pleasure of working for Mother Curry and Don Tresidder, her son-in-law. I enjoyed my summer experience and added to my desire to follow working for the Park Service.  In 1925, the summer of ’25, I again worked at Yellowstone National Park, and I worked as a draftsman in the engineering department when the Regional Office was stationed at Yellowstone Park in that year of 1925. Then, in the summer of ’27 and ’28, after pursuing m work in landscape architecture and architecture at the Washington University in St. Louis I came west in 1929 and worked for an architect all of ’29 and the early spring of ’30 in the Los Angeles area. In 1930 I had the opportunity of being employed by Mr. Thomas Vint who at that time was the Chief Landscape Architect of the National Park Service located in San Francisco, California. I felt greatly honored at that time to take this position and I had the wonderful opportunity of working with a very talented man by the name of Merel Sager.  Sager was a graduate of Harvard and he was very dedicated to landscape architecture and had much to offer in this wonderful experience and his loyalty to the profession. When we worked together in the early years there were other men in the Park Service. Bill Carnes came into the Park Service, as I recall, in about 1930 or ’31. I was stationed in the San Francisco office during that year of ’29 and ’30. Then in ’31 and ’32 I went back to St. Louis and got a Masters Degree in Landscape Design. That spring of ’33 Mr. Vint again offered me a position as landscape architect with the newly formed Civilian Conservation Corps. I came out to San Francisco in May 1933 and worked as a landscape architect. In that summer again I worked, with pleasure, for Merel Sager who had the residency positions of landscape architect for Crater Lake, Lassen, Sequoia, and a number of other national interest areas. That summer working with Sager we were able to embody and create plans for a number of the buildings at Crater Lake as well as at Lassen.  But most of our concentration from the early ’30 was devoted to the major structures at Crater Lake National Park. Our approach to the landscape problem was to create everything in a natural environment as much as possible by the uses of materials, the skills of professional people we had, and the labor members that carried out these projects. We made plans for the ranger’s dormitory, the administration building, a number of the residences at headquarters. We also made drawings for the rim area; we made layout plans of landscaping for the sidewalks, parking areas. And we also, in the summer of ’33 started on a major landscape plan to develop the landscaping of the rim area between what is know as the cafeteria and the lodge area.  At that time, or prior to our starting this work.  This area was nothing but arid, volcanic soil which had constant erosion with no stabilization. It was Mr. Sager’s idea, and Tom Vint’s ideas to create a landscape plan to stabilize all this soil.  And, as a consequence, when plans were made the work was performed by the CCC and the Public Works Administration. All the soil, the topsoil and the sods, and plant material were obtained from Munson Valley.  Many truck loads of material over a period of 1933 t o1939 were devoted in hauling material to the rim area to landscape it. The major landscaping was done in about 1940 and much effort was given to landscaping surroundings of the existing lodge and as well as the cafeteria area and other building in that general vicinity.

I would like to talk a little about the intent and the desire of our designs in landscaping the grounds of the main building.  The Crater Lake area offered an opportunity to embody the use of these existing materials in the construction of our main buildings.  There were many areas at the base of Crater Lake where stones had accumulated over the year which made a good area to pick out desirable boulders and stones of different shape to use in the design of our buildings. Consequently, such building as the rangers dormitory, they administration building, and many of the residences at park headquarters were built, or rather, they were designed basically using these massive stones and using the heavy timbers of the roof structures to give, when completed, a building that would complete and satisfy the existing terrain, thereby blending into it.  We encountered a number of construction problems in following about this intent of creating a good landscape design.  Many of the sites that we chose had to be well selected whereby there would be adequate drainage. We tried to orient building that the prevailing snow would not create unusual weight conditions on the roofs of these structures. In fact, when we designed out pitched roofs of the structures we always tried to establish a certain degree of slope which would not permit snow to accumulate, but to slide off.  But, even this best of efforts did not prevent the snow from accumulating on the buildings which in time had to be removed by other means. Our intent in using the stones, however large they might be…we tried to make it not a straight line construction, but to have the feeling that the stone generated up from the ground in a kind of sloping curve rather than to have a hard, straight, stone line coming down to the ground.  And, by doing that, gave the impression to one observing these building that the building were modeled, so to speak, with the terrains of the rock and the soil.  This proved difficult at times, but I think our end result justified the careful thought that we gave at the time. I do want to say that at this early stage in the ’30’s many of these buildings, as I have mentioned, were built by public works assistance and the grateful help of the CCC which appeared cheap labor at the time, which it was, due to the economy, but in later years turned out to be an excellent investment of what can be done even by the simplest of means, and rather than going into an expensive design architecture which would not have produced a better result of what we got in our manner of approach.  I think another asset in the landscape approach to these buildings were applied not only to the building themselves, but we retained the same blending complex with roads that were built, parking area that were built, and I’m giving special reference to the Rim Road around Crater Lake which at one time was a pumice dirt road prior to the ’30s.  But after about ’32 on, when the Bureau of Public Roads came in, and working with the assistance and the direction of the landscape architects in the National Park Service we were able to agree upon a lot of the landscape techniques which would be employed in the location of new roads.  We participated, on all occasions, with location of roads to be built, we made selections of parking areas along these road areas, we designed retaining wall view points, we did extensive planning, but I will say the planning around the rim road area itself was quite difficult because of the heavy winds that prevailed much of that open area.  But, our landscape results were quit successful, because when the road was completed, it was a beautiful road to travel over.  Beautiful spots to view.  And I think of such lovely spots as Kerr Notch, which is an excellent view point along with the many other excellent view points along the rim.  I would like to give some comment to Vidae Falls.  Vidae Falls in its natural state was a lovely natural creek bed flowing from an over cropping of rock and cascading down through a shallow valley. We did much to retain the beauty of Munson Valley, putting in extensive fill area and eventually landscaping and planting trees.  This work was done in about ’36 and ’37.  And as one goes back 50 years later in ’87, it’s surprising how well this blending has restored much of the beauty of Vidae Falls that was lost from the original beauty of the area.

Well, I’d like to tell of the reason why the present administration headquarters, known as Government Camp, was chosen as a building site for the administration building.  At the time when consideration was being given as to a permanent site for a government building group some thought had been given to using the rim area that was soon abandoned because of the severe winters and the difficulty of getting there in the winter time.  And that idea was abandoned because it offered more negative sides, and the more favorable side was in the present location of Government Camp. Now, in locating of the Government Camp, which is the present site of the administration area, the benefits of having Garfield Peak as a windshield in a valley area was considered a very essential consideration in locating for a year round construction of the administration area. This applies specifically to the administration building and the ranger’s dormitory and other building in the general area which were shield weather wise from the severe weather conditions that occurred at the rim area. This selection at government headquarters was also more appropriate down to a prominent, protective stone base boulder. And when the building was designed this strong, solid base stone permitted a building to be constructed and tied into it by proper design and by proper construction techniques.

Although it was a hazardous structure to undertake it was a challenge for all the workmen to do this heavy work involved in bringing concrete building materials, machinery, and other construction items to the site.  The ultimate end of this lovely building is that as you walk into the main entry room you get a panoramic view of the lake embracing some 180 degrees. It was unusual for this spectacular view that one gets from such a point that previously had been nothing but a massive boulder projecting out of the hillside.  This building has a roof structure of timber which was placed on heavy timber members across the top. But the massive stone walls give one the assurance of durability and everlasting beauty as a site for a museum of this nature. I think it is one of the most unusual locations for a building of its kind in the National Park Service. And I am not making reference to any beautiful viewpoints in the Grand Canyon. I think another impressive thing about Sinnott Memorial is, as one walks along the rim area, they come to a series of circular steps that lead gradually down into this open museum. It’s easily accessible to all people, not hazardous to walk up or down and a delight to be in and see the marvelous scenery and exhibits that one has placed before them.  In speaking of the Watchman, we made the drawing on that in 1931 at Sequoia Park. Then I came up to Crater Lake with Sager at the time. This building was started on Watchman. It was an ideal location for a lookout point because it had a very prominent viewpoint of the entire lake area which also attributed much to most forestry protection for forest fire observations and protection of the natural beauty of the country.

I would like to mention that it involved quite a bit of manual labor, hauling, and other materials to be delivered from the road to the site of Watchman which must have been some four or 500 feet above the height of the road below. This entailed lumber, cement, and other building materials being hauled up the hill by animals and delivered to the site, and then the material was available to the workmen to build this building. The building is rustic stone. We could not use big stone on that building because of the danger. Since the building was not extensive in size we had to use smaller stones to get the proper foundation effect rather than to have boulders on the site which were not available.  It was a difficult place to construct, but the ultimate result was a building that is well placed and has survived many years, 50 years of severe weather conditions.  It has had good maintenance and upkeep and today it is still an important point of observation of the rim road.  As I remember, we had a number of Italian masons from Portland, Oregon that did much work, not only on Watchman Tower, but they did a beautiful job on the stone work at Sinnott Memorial. I think we should be deeply indebted to those men for the hard work that they did on such a tedious job to result in such beautiful buildings.

Well, I would like to make a few comments about the problems involved at the Sinnott Memorial and also Watchman Tower. I remember quite vividly when the Sinnott Memorial construction started they erected a scaffolding about the proposed site on which they could do the construction of this Sinnott Memorial. They had erected timbered scaffolding around the site of the Sinnott Memorial, and frequently during the construction period, which was all done under very precarious conditions and difficult space to work in, the scaffolding on one or two occasions was not securely founded in the ground and some of the timbers broke. I remember one scaffolding that broke with on one on it, but had there been some workmen on the scaffolding it could have been a serious accident because all building material that broke away from this scaffolding slid down hundreds of feet into the clear lake, the Crater Lake waters below. I  remember when they were building this scaffolding a number of the men, at least three or four, would have ropes tied around their waist line and be fastened from heavy posts placed in the ground up above. This was a precautionary measure to prevent possible injury. I do not remember any serious injuries taking place there, but I do recall of some of the materials on the platforms being accidentally lost and falling to the area below without any casualties.  The construction of the job was very time consuming. And especially the masonry men out there, once they got the scaffolding built around the site, they too were very, very careful to watch each step they made and not to lose their balance and fall below and be involved in serious injury.

As I recall, no major injuries took place on the building, but I recall they had a party one Saturday afternoon with about eight or ten of the stonemasons drinking bottles of wine and celebrating, but there again, it was humorous to see how they’d laugh and joke with one another in their native tongue but they were all happy to have completed the beautiful job. And I remember like instances at Watchman Tower. At that time they were hauling timber and cement and other building materials up from the road below and they used some donkeys on one or two occasions when they got the material up to the site at Watchman Tower. When the material was delivered to the site they’d place it on the ground thinking that it would be securely placed there. And some other pieces of lumber that might have been in the area would disturb the stack of materials and cause it to fall down below. Quite a bit of concrete sack was lost this way because the concrete sacks were quite heavy and when they put it on that soil, which was kind of sand like and soft like, a lot of it slid down the crater into the water below.

But this was corrected by more precautionary measures. I also remember when they were putting in the glass windows around the structure there was a windy day and the workmen were working on the inside of the building and these heavy gusts of wind came along and below out one side of the windows but fortunately no one was hurt and that caused several days of delay to replace all the glass broken out of the window because of that sudden burst of air. And as I recall, one man did fall from the scaffolding and break a leg, but it wasn’t serious. They rescued him and took him down to a hospital, as I recall, in Klamath Falls. But both the Sinnott Memorial and the Watchman Towers did entail a lot of caution and along with it the workmen always seemed to be happy, joking with me because they realized they were having a lot of fun and I certainly enjoyed the humor and the joking that they would make of us landscape architects. They called us “beauty boys.” And why they gave us the name “beauty boys” I’d laugh and think, well maybe it’s them, these things that we thought were important, to them were just another day’s work. But, by God I think they understood what we were trying to do, and I used to hear from one or two of the old masons up in Portland every Christmas in Italian. Although I couldn’t read his Christmas card I know his thoughts were good. I remember this one guy, he used to talk to me and say “Why do you do?” Plus, “Things so funny”. He was Italian. He says, “You make me work hard, then I have to take the rock out—what’s wrong with it the first time?!”

Well, I’d like to talk about the operations we had at making furniture. This was primarily done by all CCC labor. We had a workshop established at Annie Springs, and it was in conjunction with a blacksmith’s shop, a carpenter shop and other miscellaneous duties that were performed at the Annie Springs area. But, in talking of the sign shop, we had one building devoted to the planning—that is making the necessary drawing—and making the actual construction, and the actual finishing of the furniture.  Now, at this workshop we had a minimum of about 10 to 12 boys who worked in there constantly making signs.  We would direct them, help them on sketches. We had one very good draftsman, and I helped him quite a bit and we created a design for a number of the buildings at Crater Lake. And I am referring to the administration building where we made a number of pieces of furniture to be used in that structure. Some were benches which were approximately six feet long, and about 30 inches high, and about 24 inches wide. We took posts of spruce and we would design figures on the post and then have them carved out like tools. Then, the frame would be embellished with tree like logo encasings to symbolize a natural effect showing tree symbols on the lower railing and along the side which we thought would add to the rustic characteristic.

Then, the seat proper would be another—we’d buy from the San Francisco office on Mission Street—and we’d buy these pieces of leather—they were about six to eight feet long and about 24 inches wide. It was very reasonable, we’d have these large pieces of leather and they served as the seating base for each of the long benches. We did put padding underneath and make them very comfortable. They were well tacked and secured and placed in place on top of each of the frames of each bench. We made a number of these. We tried to select, we had leathers tops dyed red, which came treated that way from the leather factory. We had dark shades of green, treated from the factory and also dark shades of brown, treated likewise. These made a very comfortable feeling base on which to sit. Some of them are placed in the Sinnott Memorial.  We gave two or three pieces down to Lassen Park for taking down to Lassen Park a number of pieces of furniture such as tables, rustic tables, appropriately designed with tree symbols or other major items carved on the posts around the front pieces of the table.  These were done to embellish them and make them more attractive to the native surroundings in which we placed them.  We also built a number of benches, as I recall, I think we did about 10 benches that were delivered to the Mt. Hood Timberline Lodge as a gift from the Crater Lake CCC boys. We received many compliments from tourists and especially from the Mt. Hood administration about the tables. They seemed to take great delight in displaying and referring to this furniture. As a result of that, the Timber lodge people, as I recall, during this construction encountered on a similar campaign to make furniture of a rustic nature which we made at Crater Lake workshop.

We received a number of compliments from the newspapers and local newspapers around the Crater Lake area for our work. I might say that we also had a small, three C workshop at Lave Beds National Park. There the wood was more of hickory type or a hard pine nature from which we’d make furniture; rustic furniture with a seating base made out of heavy twine cloth and very comfortable to sit in. It had more of the rustic features, because we used just the round members of the natural wood, rather than trying to cut it as we did on the benches. Many of these pieces of furniture were copied in time, as I recall, I remember one furniture store in Klamath Falls displayed furniture of the same type that we had made in our three C camp at Lava Beds.

But I later found out that two of the three C boys that made this furniture, when they got out of the three C they set up a workshop of their own in Klamath Falls and sold a number of pieces of furniture they had learned to make at the three C camp in Lava Beds and they did very well. I don’t know what happened to that, but they had an excellent idea had they been able to carry it out. We also made a number of pieces for the Oregon Caves in the dining room. We made one big table; we had a solid oak top. This piece of oak was given to us by a native from around Applegate, and he finished the piece of oak timber in a rough texture and we did the finishing work of sanding and polishing later. This one table we made was made up of several lengths, I think it was about 25 feet in length, it had a number of pieces of oak wood doweled together and it was sanded down and polished and made a beautiful dining room table. It was used at the Oregon Cave Lodge for a number of years and I don’t know what’s happened to it since. Perhaps it’s been stored or salvaged or might have been destroyed. But, our furniture program was quite important; we received many comments from people at the Yosemite National Park staff and also at the Mount Rainier staff where they also followed our program of making furniture. I would feel proud to think that we had been park of that one-phase furniture construction when the three C boys not only learned a lot, but they could show the skills of young people could be developed with proper protection and guidance and the end result was most complimentary to the young men that did it as well to the CCC organization itself.

I would like to mention some of the young men that I think did an excellent job during the days of the three C camps. And I am particularly proud of a number of them for what they became in later life. All of these young men that worked with us in the State Parks, in the National Parks, all of them were college graduates from Oregon State, the University of California, and Washington State University. They were all young men who got out of school in the ’33s when job finding was most difficult, yet they all had a determination to contribute in their professional field, be it architecture or landscape architecture.

And I specifically refer to several young men I will always remember, how good they were, how faithful they were and what they became in later life. I would like to particularly pay tribute to Howard Buford, who was my landscape assistant at Crater Lake, who was a very innovative and mentally active young man. Any job that he was given; he applied himself and did excellent work. I remember especially Howard in charge of our furniture making shop which we had down at Annie Springs. Howard was very good, very dedicated, and eventually when he left the government service, he took position as city planner with the city of Eugene, Oregon. He did an outstanding job as planner for the city, and has had a park named after him which he designed himself. I speak highly of Howard and the success that he gave to his work and to his loyalty and honesty. Another fine gentleman that I enjoyed working with was Edward Meola. He was a dedicated man, had many creative ideas, was good on wrought-iron work, was also a good on sign planning and construction and execution in the field. Ed later entered the State Park system in Salem, Oregon, where he has an excellent career. I have another young chap, an architect by the name of Roland Gibbs, who graduated from the University of California in 1933. After he left the three C and worked four years with me in the summer months, he went into private practice and in time became on of the prominent architects of that city. I think he died some two or three years ago, but he was an outstanding AIA (American Institute of Architects) Member, and a highly qualified and gifted architect.

I had another young architect by the name of Roger Armstrong. He was more inclined toward the writing and research field of architecture. He was a studious man. He spent several trips over to Europe and he published an interesting book on the Cathedrals of France. He made drawing of each Cathedral, gave a historical reference to the book in his reference and I think this embraced some 35 Cathedrals which were all bound in one edition. He received man noble comments for this accomplishment of his writing and assembling this excellent material. I’ll always remember on little landscape architect, his name is Al Lathrop, he had a very keen mind, but he was physically deformed. By that I mean he was small in stature and had other conditions which most of us were most fortunate not to have. Whenever I gave Al a job to do, he always was loyal to doing the job; he won’t the respect of the men that worked for him. Al Lathrop passed away several years ago, but I’ve always admired that young chap. He was a gifted landscape architect; he did very well in working for the city of Eugene under Howard Buford and was a very dedicated young man. I have another friend, Bob Goodall who was a landscape architect. He was excellent in design and was unusually good at public contacts. He later became a prominent landscape architect in New York City and did many outstanding residential, school layouts and related planning. He was a nationally prominent man.

I’d like to talk about a dear friend of mine, and that’s David Canfield. When I first met David in ’32 he was the Chief Ranger of Crater Lake. Dave was a friendly and helpful man. He was tall, neat and he always presented himself in a good manner to people. Dave later on became Superintendent of Crater Lake in 1933. I remember that summer of ’33 when Secretary Ickes came through the park and the Crater Lake ranger staff, with Dave in charge, drove the Secretary of the Interior Ickes through the park and later on drove him down to Redding to some dedication of the forthcoming Shasta Dam. Also Dave, I’d like to comment, he was dearly loved by all the people. All the rangers were very dedicated to Dave. Dave was very friendly to everyone.

I never remember Dave saying an angry work against anyone as long as I worked with him; I worked with Dave for several years before he was transferred to Rocky Mountains. Dave was at the park in ’33 during the heyday of the activity.  There was much construction: there was much major road building, there were many CCC problems, public works programs, and he had quite a fiscal responsibility as a head of the Park Service to administer and bring about a good coordination of the all the work forces. Everyone respected Dave and Dave respected each man for his opinion and judgment. He was never critical of anyone and he always spoke well of one. I always remember Dave, there would be three or four of us, we played horseshoes in back of the administration building. We had a pole light that Dave had put up and we had four of us that played horseshoes. Dave, Ernie Rostel, John Doerr, and myself. I want to speak about Ernie Rostel. Ernie Rostel was a publicity man for Crater Lake. Dave thought very much of Ernie. Ernie was an easy-going, kind and unhurried person. He wrote most of the editorials of the work going on about Crater Lake which he distributed to the various newspapers in Medford and throughout the state. He was an excellent writer, but I’ll always remember him for his easy going mannerism. I’ll always remember John Doerr for his excellent personality, his friendly manner and his love and respect for the many people that worked for him. John never said one angry work of anyone at work. He was always friendly, he gave an excellent lecture. He got many compliments from the audience and he later on did very well at brushing up for stature. Well, I would like to speak a few thoughtful words for Dave Canfield. I think at the time when Dave Canfield was Superintendent in ’33 to approximately 1937 there was an excellent spirit of comradeship between Dave and those people that worked for him.

And I’ll always recall how Dave, if there was a problem on getting one space to live in or something need in the way of equipment, we had refrigerators, stoves or anything to make his workers, or helpers I should call them, satisfied. Dave would go out of his way to help everyone and I think as a result of that, was due to those people that worked for him. They gave themselves. I never remember any critical words being spoken against Dave, all I can remember was good things, his good qualities and the help that he did. I’ll always remember from the landscaping point of view Dave was highly interested in following out the landscape and architectural needs of his park.  He took particular pride in reviewing the plans with us, he had many fine suggestions from the practical point of view that we did not have because he had lived with these people throughout the year and I think he made people produce more. I never felt I was working on the snow plow. When Dave and I went up a couple of winter times it had a severe storm, Dave would always say to the fellows on the snow plow, “You’re doing a good job.” He said, “You’re getting rid of that damn stuff, somebody’s got to get rid of it.” Ha Ha! He said that. All the rangers and the office personnel and even many of the tourists spoke well of Dave Canfield, how he had helped them come into the park. Dave was very receptive to comments from the public and he instructed rangers to listen to any comments and any negative comments, he always wanted to hear and correct them accordingly. We all hated to see Dave leave in ’39.

He knew that he was entitled to advancement to a better position and by going back to Rocky Mountain they were very fortunate to have an excellent administrator to guide them in their work. He left many friends at Crater Lake and many of us were sorry to Dave leave, but we were proud to think that we were part of his progress to success.

September 13, 1988.

We’ll go through some of the questions that I’ve prepared and begin with the first one under Section A.  That’s Francis Lange’s background and life after his work at CRLA, and with Section A beginning with the first question. 

Where did you grow up and what is your educational background?

Well, I was born in Sedalia, Missouri in 1904. I spent my childhood around Sedalia. I went to Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri and I got a Bachelor of Architecture in 1928 and a Masters in Landscape Design from Washington University in 1932. I think I should go back a little bit to ’23 before… I’d like to mention that I worked at Yellowstone NP in 1923 at Mammoth Lodge. I did the job as a porter, or we were called “pack rats.” We used to handle he luggage from the tourists at they came in on the yellow busses at Mammoth Hot Springs. I spent the summer there in ’23. In the summer of 1924, I had the good fortune of working at Camp Curry at Yosemite NP. I had previously interviewed Mother Curry who managed her cottage facilities there and I also met here son-in-law, Don Tresidder who worked in the office at the time. This was in 1924. I spent the summer there and returned back East, and was attending Washington University. Then the summers of ’27 and ’28 I returned to Yellowstone NP each summer and worked in the Engineer’s Office at Park Headquarters at Mammoth. During the time while was working with the Park Service I became interested in landscape and architecture, and especially as an architect. During this time in the Park Service, in these parks, I met many interesting people.  Herbert Maier, who was with the Rockefeller Institute on Museum Construction. I met Mr. Albright, and I knew a number of Park Officials in Washington, having been fortunate enough to be in the park the time they came. At that time I was observing the architectural and landscape possibilities and that created a keen interest in my personal desires to be associated with the landscape and planning phase of the NPS.  During the winter of ’32 and ’33, while working in the Engineer’s Office in Yellowstone Park. That spring of ’33 I got an offer from Mr. Vent to work as a landscape architect.  Mr. Sager, at that time, was landscape architect under whose control I worked. I’d like to mention here, as I recall, it was in the summer of 1930 or ’31 that I worked on a temporary job from the San Francisco office going to Sequoia NP with Mr. Sager. That was my first actual contact as a landscape architect during that period of time. When I was over the job in ’33 I reported to San Francisco and again, worked under the supervision of Mr. Sager. We immediately went to CRLA, stopping en route at Lassen. We had our base operations at CRLA beginning about May, as I recall, 1933.

How about as a draftsman, where did you learn your line work, and the lettering and stuff? Was that earlier, with the Park Service?

No, that was architectural training.

When you were in school?

Oh yeah, I never learned nothing at the Park Service, no. When I was going to school in St. Louis in the ’20, I used to work at night time for an architect at drafting. I was pretty good at it. So, I was a fairly good draftsman when I got out of college. No need for mentioning that, is there?

It was something I was interested in just looking at all the master plans and why they look so similar, but the line work is very….

Oh, that’s a drafting technique.

I will say that while attending Washington University in St. Louis I had done considerable drafting on buildings, on landscape plans during my spare time and on my weekends working for private individuals, which enabled me to earn my way through school.  I’m going back here, it says, what did you do when you worked at CRLA?  At CRLA in the early spring of 1933 there was considerable activity and progress with the CCC, PWA, and CWA programs of the Federal Government. I’m saying something that…you’re not asking me that questions, but here. You’re asking about Munson Valley. As I mentioned there was much activity and force during that first summer of ’33 we devoted extensive activity to landscaping the Rim Area as well as the Park Headquarters at CRLA.  But, plans had previously been prepared for the development of the Rim Area and the Park headquarters area which is the basis of our planning schedule. We were fortunate in having three or four very competent landscape architects working under our supervision at CRLA.  These competent landscape architects directed the CCC young workers, and obtained extensive amounts of plants, top soil, peat moss, and other plants material from Munson Valley.  All this material was transmitted from Munson Valley up to the Rim Area— a distance of some three miles plus.  Hundreds of truck loads of material were delivered each week. And this landscaping program which started about 1933, or thereabouts, continued ever summer until about the fall of 1940, when I left CRLA.  This embraced some eight or nine summers where the landscape crews were able to do this tremendous task. They had to take advantage of the short seasons to do their trucking, hoeing and planting. I don’t think they did much after 1940.

Were you there generally most of the summer supervising?

Oh yeah, I was there from April to October every year.

And then in the winter time you’d be…?

San Francisco.

So, how much time did you spend at the Caves doing that project?

Oh, I’d go in during the summer months whenever I had to.  We had spike camps over there at ORCA. And then, in the winter time, the camp that was at CRLA some of it moved down to ORCA.  I think some of it went over to Lave Beds.

So you split the camps? 

I think there were 200 men in the camp, I’m not sure

Because the yearbooks I’ve seen from that time, they list a camp Lava Beds and a camp ORCA, but they don’t talk about CRLA. 

No, there was no camp there in the winter months.

So, where were the camps at ORCA?  

They were down from ORCA. Oh, down about two miles down, at a camp site in there.

Oh, that Cave Creek campground maybe?

In there, yes.

What about that Grayback campground now that’s about eight miles down. They never had a camp there.

Is there a river creek that goes through it?

Yes.

What’s the other camp? How far is the other camp away?

It’s about eight miles or so. Mile post 12 is at Grayback, and then it’s 20 miles. 

What’s the bigger of the 2 areas?

Grayback’s bigger than Cave Creek is.

I think Grayback was the one.

There was a camp Kerby at one time. Was that down at Kerbyville?

Yes. There’s Kerby junction, there’s a town…gee, what the hell am I talking about? There was a partial camp at Camp Kerby. Kerby is a little town down there. I think they had a little camp down there. A lot of those fellows lived at Cave Junction. The foreman and those fellows, they lived in the Cave Junction and then, they’d commute back and forth during the winter months. Then, in the summer months they’d come back to CRLA.

You said that you took a lot of pictures of CRLA. Where there other people who took construction photos? 

I never paid much attention. I guess so, sure, yeah.

Because there were a lot of reports on a lot of pictures of work that was being done. 

Oh, yeah, I really don’t know what those fellows did.

But, mostly your pictures went on the — which reports? The landscape architect reports?

Well, my reports would go in every month. On my landscape architecture reports, I had to give them a report every month.

All the pictures seemed pretty good quality; they’re sharp, black and whit snapshots? 

Yeah, I took good pictures. Here’s a question, how was the decision made to site the various building in Munson Valley and elsewhere? You’re talking about all the buildings in Munson Valley?

It looks like an interesting way that some of the are north—south, some are east-west. They just depended on…. Because I know Vint went through on kind of a tour in 1926 to a least plan some of the sites.

Yes. They didn’t spend a lot of time there, I know that.

Just a couple of days? 

Yes, they didn’t live there. No. so I don’t know just what they…

Native stone, and this had been considered by previous people, not me— I’m not taking credit for any of this stuff—I think the ideas was to use the native stone because it was in such abundance around the Munson Valley area that it seemed only natural to use the native materials in the construction of our buildings.  The sizes of the stones varied in the construction of each building, but the fundamental principle was to put larger stones at the base and taper up to smaller stones.  And also, the ends of each building rather than ending in the conventional square corner of a wooden frame building, these stones were extended out sometimes three and four feet or five feet to make it appear as though the stones were in a natural setting in relation to the building.  Thereby blending in more evenly and without optical disturbance that one would see in seeing a straight line building placed on a similar area.  This is done primarily for aesthetic effects. It had no additional value to construction support to the building itself. But it merely added to what we term a softness of hard lines that man made objects sometimes disrupts the natural profile and contour of nature itself.

Who made that decision to go from the small to the big? 

I don’t think one guy said that, I think they just kind of got out there and thought, “Well this looked good.” Now, I know Sager didn’t get out there and say, “Now, you’ve got to move this big block.” I think when he talked to the guys he gave them their general ideas. I think they took it off.

It seemed to have happened about 1930 or so.

Yes. They had been doing a little, not too much stone work up in the ‘30s. Really, they didn’t do a hell of a lot of stone work ‘til about ’32 and ’33. That’s when the big stones…that’s when the curbs and gutters and the ranger dormitory and administrative building. So, the administration building was started in ’34. I think it was finished in ’35.  I think the ranger’s dormitory was started in about 1931 or ’32. Because we moved in…I remember Sager and I moved into it in ’33 and the offices were in that building.  All the Park Service’s offices were in the dormitory.

They were downstairs. A lot of fellows were sleeping upstairs in the bunk, but the offices were downstairs. That’s how small it was.  They’ve probably got so many people now they can’t find each other, can they?  How many have they got in that building?

About six or seven offices in there now. But there’s that visitor reception area and the auditorium.

That building was never planned to be an office building. So, when they had to have an office space—and the only building they had they had a little frame structure [the old administration building] was terrible so when the ranger’s dorm was done they decided to, use a lobby of that building as office space. And that’s why you see that door. That door coming in there to the left would normally have taken you into kind of a big lobby, and then you’d walk straight ahead as you come in and you go up the steps to go up the stairs. Now, that was all based on a dormitory, but when they came along they had to have office space so they used the lounge area as an office space until the new administration building was built. So they used that about two summers. But rangers still come in and slept upstairs. They’d bunk upstairs in the big room. And, I was on one end, Sager and I had one room on the far end. Jean Steel was down on the first floor. Then they had a couple guest rooms for when Washington “big shots” would came, they had a room for them.  But when the administration building was finished in ’35, then they all went over to the building there, see.

Styles of lettering, I just designed my own.  I didn’t copy anybody’s design, just worked it out. I mean, I realized when you lettered you would make letters heavy and bold so they stand out. I never copied anything out of a book.  My drafting experience (or other people’s drafting experience) we use what we think is appropriate lettering.  And what you see, the lettering we did, represents what I thought when I started these signs. Or maybe I got the ideas from somebody else, I don’t know what. But I don’t say, “I was adhering to a design.” I just designed a type of lettering that I thought looked nice.  There’s a lot of designs of lettering that you can go to. You can go into designs of letters straight, horizontal, vertical.  There’s a lot of little niceties you can add to it.  Like a cheap watch or a finely designed watch, there’s a lot of things you can elaborate on.  But, it was a matter of personal selection and observation. I don’t think it was copied from any book of lettering. You could buy books on lettering, and you could find 50 or 75 types of lettering. Classical, ancient type lettering, you can see all that, you can get that in the library.  But we just took a good conventional, practical lettering, that’s all what you see.  This is good to the eye, that’s all we looked for. So, we didn’t …I didn’t copy anybody’s letters, to hell with them.  It wasn’t that complicated of a problem.  I think I worked this summer…. I’m trying to think when I first worked on the master plan, I think Sager had me work on some planning down at Sequoia ’29 or ’30, I forget, really I do.  When I really got involved in the master plans of CRLA was about in 1933. What was a custom in those days. My job like many other jobs, park landscape in many other parks, I was called a resident landscape architect working under the supervision of the San Francisco office.  And I was assigned, as resident landscape architect, to CRLA and Lassen Park.  Therefore, it became my responsibility every fall, when I came in from CRLA, around October to revise master plans for those two parks and other National Monuments I had to work on and have them ready by the following spring.  Which were approved and distributed to the various parks and other NPS officials concerned.

Did you know who was responsible for…

Starting it? Oh well, I guess Mr. Vint was, oh sure. I would say those responsible for the master plan must have been Mr. Thomas, Vint, Merel Sager, and (John) Waskey, and any of the others in the early time. I don’t know them all. I don’t think (Thomas) Carpenter, he came a little later. Some of the guys I really don’t remember. I wasn’t one of the originators far be it from me.  I just carried on the pattern, that’s all I did. I don’t think the building at CRLA was copied per se directly from other park structures because the same conditions of creating the type of landscape architecture at CRLA was similar or the same. Personal charm could be found in the landscaping of Sequoia, and the other national parks within the National Park System. I think each area had in park its conception applied by talented technicians, landscape architects, and architects, and engineers who arrived and approved the approach to the various types of structures undertaken.

With reference to the NPS publications in 1935 and ’38, we did from CRLA and Lassen submit to those preparing these publications information which they requested. Such as photos of our furniture, campgrounds, structures, and any other features which we thought were of interest and might be applicable to our rustic architecture at CRLA or other parks within the general area.

The next one is on the Sinnott Memorial.

I did not have much to do with that at the early planning or construction. But, I did participate at a later date in some of the landscaping, the walks, and approaches to the building.  Most of this work had been done by previous designers of which I had no part in.  I do recall that Dr. John C. Merriam in landscape and Lawrence Merriam, I think it was a father and son wasn’t it? Yes.  

They were both active in the creation and undertaking of the Sinnott Memorial and accomplished a remarkable end. Now, any more about the Sinnott Memorial?

Sure. How about some of the early drawings, did you have something to do with the design of the drawing?  

I seemed like I remember working on some sketches from Merel Sager down in the ’20s, in the early days down in Sequoia.  I’m not too sure; I did so much of that stuff for him. I did not make the working drawings on Sinnott memorial. I do think that the Sinnott Memorial, after 50 years by those fellows and the engineers who selected the site and agreed on it and the method of construction, is very unusual and literally almost defies the existence of such a building on such a precarious site.  A lot of people do not realize how that structure is located.  As I recall there is a heavy outcropping on that particular site on which the Sinnott Memorial was constructed. I think it’s one of the most unusual types of a building in the Park Service with such a dominant view of that beautiful lake, where literally one can almost reach out and touch the lake through the close vision that you get by having such a favorable location. I think it is a very unusual building and most people do not conceive of where they are actually standing on the brim of a lovely lake site, that’s all I’m saying. I think it’s remarkable. Hell, now days they’d have to drill holes and make seismic tests and they’d have to blast 50 miles down the road and look for a vent down here and a vent in Union Creek before somebody could say, “Yeah, go ahead.” I’ll bet right now they couldn’t get together no building the darn thing.  They’d fight. In those days they didn’t have that. Now you got all this analysis. They never would have built that building today. They would have had to have some specialist from Chicago come out, you know, if you know what I mean. They just used common sense and I think their common sense sometimes far exceeds all this brilliant profession. I think you need professional help, always. But sometimes common sense has to weigh between right and wrong. That’s about enough of that. I think it’s an unusual building. I really do. I think it’s the most unusual building up there. The administration building is secondary, peanuts. The men’s washroom, peanuts. The lodge, they should have torn that down 50 years ago and forgot about it!  They tried all of a sudden to create a valuable historical accent, damn fire hazard! That’s all it is!  And they stay up all night and write reports year in and year out, somebody writes a report. Another day they’ll write reports on 1900, I mean the year 2000. Some guy, maybe you’ll get to take part in it.  That’s enough of that crap.

The next one was about the specific projects you did at the caves and at Lava Beds. How much of a role, and where you worked in the State Park System.

Well, they have so damn much going on nowadays, hell. Well, as I recall, Mr. Davidson who was a regional landscape architect and well, it was in the ’35s and ‘36s. At that time there was a lot of activity in the Oregon State Parks and a fellow by the name of Samuel Boardman, who was Superintendent of the Oregon State Parks and they were cooperating with the NPS in the Oregon area.  And as I recall, the State Parks asked for assistance, technical assistance from the Park Service in reviewing some of the landscaping work and development that was being done in the Oregon State Park system.  I’m not saying that they directed the works, but I was instructed to go up and visit the various State Parks camps over at Woahink Park near Florence, Silver Creek Fall near Silverton, Casey Park and several others. I used to visit them about once every four or five weeks in the summer moths.  Sometimes less frequently depending on the work load I had at Lassen and CRLA and the other areas. So, although I worked with the landscape foreman in each of those camps most of the landscape foremen were well qualified in doing the work they were doing working through the office of Mr. Boardman. My position or our position was merely consultation or comments but not trying to direct the work. We were just offering advice as much as we could.

They were landscape architects….

Oh yeah, good men there, we had a good man in Silver Creek Falls, a good man at Woahink, had a good man at Casey, had a good man at Roxy Ann [ Prescott + Metropolitan Park in Medford], we had very competent boys, they were Oregon State landscape graduates. So, they were good fellows to work with.  And they got along with our crew. So, that is my experience with the State Park, I didn’t have much time for it. My services weren’t that much in demand because people were competent to do it. I went out on two or three trips when we looked at …in the 30s along the Oregon Coast.  I remember one time we went on a two or three weeks tour with Emerson Knight. Emerson Knight, he was a well- know landscape architect from San Francisco, and he came up from San Francisco and I had accompanied him on a two weeks inspection trip of the Oregon Coast with State Park officials looking over potential State Park sites. At that time, the Oregon State Highway was just a two lane road, you know. It’s not the modern day highway now. It was very primitive, and some of those areas were beautiful areas. Well, I was surprised how cheap land was at that time. And we looked at sites, beautiful sites overlooking the ocean for sale that the prices at that time seemed high, but it’s unbelievable what that land is worth now.  You could have bought it in those days had you have had the money.  But the Oregon Coast was beautiful country, rugged, unspoiled by any major developments, and I’ve noticed a lot of changes. 

Oh, I guess the next question was just about any people you would have known who would have worked for the Forest Service at that time. I know we’ve discussed that.

Yeah. Well, I did have some contact with some Forest Service officials. I think, as I recall, I remember Blanchfield; I’m saying that, I think I remember it. I liked him, he was alright. This Cascade designer.

Did you see some of the early design? Like up on McKenzee Pass there’s that Dee Wright observatory. The Forest Service did some nice things up to about ’36 or so with some of their community kitchens.

Yeah, I saw that, but not in detail.  I remember they were working on that.  I heard that had a lot of favorable comments on it. I never looked, I remember passing by. 

Was it always that same house, that third stone cottage?

Yes, they always gave it to me.

Did they put the dormers in when you were there? I know they originally looked a lot simpler.

They were added later on.

With the porches and the…

Yeah, that was added later on.

Was that when you were living there?

No, they did it after it. They must have done that after ’40. 

Oh, they did?  

Yes. You mean the dorm room windows? 

Yeah, the dorm room windows and the porches. How the porches come out in kind of an L-shape? Because originally they have a very simple….

We had just a simple porch. A concrete slab, that’s all we had. That must have been later. What have they done to the dorm room windows? Make them bigger?

Well, the dormers were put through the…originally when they were built in ’27 and ’28 there were no dormers in the roofline.

I know it. Then they put them on.

Yeah. 

Well, when we moved in there in ’36, I think they had dormer windows. 

Oh, O.K. Do you remember some of your neighbors?

Doug Roach. Hedgpeth, John Doerr, Bill Robinson, Sargent, the Bureau of Public Roads Engineer…

Did the Chief Ranger always live up in that next… 

Yes. He lived up at, his name was….

Crouch, who came in. 

Crouch, he lived up there. And then there was the head mechanic of the garage, he lived up there too. They were pretty regular; they were there in summer like we were. Yeah, Robinson came from the San Francisco office as an engineer like I came from the San Francisco office too. They moved in He was a nice guy, I liked Bill. I liked his wife. Nice people.

Another one of my questions was, did you ever meet Steel before?

No, I never met Steel.

What’s that here. How strong was the Berkeley influence on the NPS?Well…

It seemed like most of the early guys were University of California graduates.

Yeah, well that’s all I can say. Merriam, and Vint, Sager went back East. A few of the early guys, lets see, Merriam, and Vint, and what’s his name…Albright, he went to Cal.

Mather. 

Mather. They all had, I think they were all; I’m not, per se landscape architects. I think they were all environmentalists willing to set aside National Parks to preserve all the natural environmental studies.  I think that was the intent of a lot of these early guys, which you had to have that to begin with.  Landscaping and architecture followed in place after these things and once it had been set up. And I think a lot of that did take place around the Berkeley area. Although eastern people were highly interested in the NPS too, you know.

You never knew Daniels?

No I don’t. I heard of him, I don’t remember him to tell you the truth. But I remember … I never met Mather, I think he died…

In the 1930’s. 

I remember when he died, but I haven’t me him. I met Albright a number of times.

They planted a tree in his memory on the Rim. I haven’t been able to locate it yet. 

Daniels, now I’m trying to think of Daniels. Where was he first associated?

Well, he was before Albright. He was before there was a park service, that 1 year or 2 years. He had his own business.

I know it, yeah. I think he was a private consultant or something, I don’t know what it was. I never met him.  I’ve heard of him.  But I knew…Solinsky, I liked him very much.  Treated me very well.  He was a landscape architect; I don’t recall when he was. I didn’t know him too well.

Do you remember a guy named Ticknor?  He was a foreman, I think in the C’s.

I heard of him, yeah, but I don’t know. He’s still around isn’t he?

No, I think he died about in the middle of WWII. In a truck accident.

I remember the name. Yeah, I remember. Pretty nice guy.

Edward…

Meola.

Oh, Ed Meola. He died here.  He was a landscape foreman there. I think that’s spelled wrong, isn’t it?  

Yeah, it’s from the transcription.

Ed was a good guy. He was a foreman. He wasn’t as good as Howard Buford or some the others, but…Ed, I think he went back East to get his landscape architecture, but he was in the Naval Reserves I think when the war came along and they called him back in. Then, when he got out he got a job at the State Parks in Salem, OR as a landscape architect.  He died here a couple years ago, I think he was 82. Ed was a good guy, he was an Italian guy, good guy, yeah.

Did he do any of that wrought-iron stuff on the inside of a lot of the buildings? Who was responsible for doing a lot of the wrought iron, oh the chandeliers or curtain rods?

We made a lot of drawings for those, but Ed didn’t, I don’t think.

Oh, he didn’t?

I could be wrong, I really don’t know. Because they were making that stuff down at Annie Springs. Now, he might have, I really don’t know. I remember we made the fireplace drawings, I think I told you about that concrete beam over the fireplace, of how we worked on that.

Yes.

We did some drawings for wrought-iron lights, but I forget all that. It seemed like there was this, I’m trying to think of the guy, this blacksmith down at Annie Springs that was pretty good at that stuff. Now I can’t remember his name, I was thinking of him the other day. I forget, really. Well 

Oh, I guess the next section was the initials of, we talked about the photos and sometimes they put initials on their work.

Oh yeah. Now who is it? Photographer for the ECW. Well, there was a fellow by the name of George Whitworth. He was an engineer, worked under Mr. Robinson.  He was an engineer for the CCC. I liked George, he was a good guy, smoked too many cigarettes. But we worked pretty close together. George was very through in anything he did on his paperwork, and I think he took a lot of pictures. I’m sure he did. I want to give him credit for what he really did.  Who were EAD? That’s Ernest A. Davidson.. AndLHA. LHA? [Lester H. Anderson, FGL’s successor].

That was just something that we found of some of the photos.

What would you recommend as a way to line up many of the same shots that were taken a few years ago?  Boy! If I were to go around the park and get a record of development at CRLA. Well, are you talking about the signs?

Um, Yeah. I think that was a pretty wide-open question. I was hoping at some point to kind of get a record of where we are and maybe how high the trees have grown that were planted…

Oh, well that, yeah. Take a look at Vidae Falls and see how much growth they’re taken on in 50 years. You can… 

Yeah, that’s a good way of maybe extrapolating a lot of ….

Yeah.

Well, maybe we should just go to the construction. I know I had a question, a couple questions about the Watchman. That first one was that, did the Mt. Harkness lookout at Lassen influence what you did?

Yeah, I drew that up down in Sequoia. I think that the Watchman, if I were to do it again, I would make it a little heavier construction, but it’s still up this long. Were there problems with building the plumbing? I don’t know. Who is responsible for the cabinets for the lookouts? I guess they just put them in when they built it.

Well, the cabinets are really elaborate. 

I know they’re good cabinets. They’re better than the building.

Yeah, they’ve got the diamond design on them, and they got that red table. 

I think they must have bought all that stuff. I remember that. That was first class. That’s why I say “better than the building.” We have a report by Tom Vint that refers to some plans developed for CRLA in 1926.  That’s probably true, yeah. As I was going to say, I don’t know too much about that.

Because that was earlier than when you got here.

Oh yeah, that’s about when he started. I remember I talked to a Professor, he’s dead now, and his name was Professor Craig. And he went to Massachusetts State School of Forestry with Craig. He died a number of …been dead for a long time. But, he came out in about 1918 or ’19 and Tom Vint had been in this military service and old men Sheppard in this old age told me this back in the ’40, he said, “I can always remember Tom Vint. When he first came to school,” he says, “This strong, stocky built guy, and he had an old model I and he’d drive up in front of the school building, he’d say, ‘Woah!’” You know! He laughed about that. Tom was kind of a bulky, all energy you know.  Well, I don’t want to go into personalities. Hell, I don’t know too much about him.

I guess my next question was the building at Annie Spring why they were all log verses stone. 

I don’t know why they did that.  That’s what they did before the ’20. I don’t know why. They just took the thing that was most convenient. A lot of them were built without plans, they’d just start building, you know.

Yeah. 

I don’t know where they, I don’t remember seeing any of the early plans. Annie Springs, uh-uh. No, I don’t know where the hell they are.

An architect, call fellow. So, I guess when he designed those details that was his determination, you know. I don’t think they, I don’t think that builders who built it made the dramatic change like that because they’d have to figure it out without getting proper consultation, you know.

So, little things like chimney caps, it’s all just personal choice.

Yeah, that was personal selection. It’s practical use, fire hazards and all that, you know.

Right. 

I think they’ll be using their own judgment. I think when they were building the buildings I think the plans pretty well were scrutinized so they didn’t go astray and do something dangerous, somebody would have caught it, you know.

Now, those wagon wheel chandeliers. They’re pretty common. We’ve seen them at ranger dorms, superintendent’s house. 

Oh yeah, I’ve seen that up at Jackson Hole, I’ve seen it, that wagon wheel is an old concept. You see it in bars up in Montana. A lot of people use that adaptation and apply it to light fixtures, and you know. You could look at a damn catalog and find all that crap made back in Philadelphia 200 years ago if you wanted to. A lot of the stuff that you see isn’t new. You see some elaborate channel, everything is, “gee, that’s wonderful.”  Hell, you go back in the New England States or old Pennsylvania towns, dust towns, you’ll find they were just as clever as we were. And now we’re trying to copy a lot. You know, none of us copied.

Because you had to have a flue for each fire place, and had to have a direct current that draws properly, you know. But, when you make a fireplace back to back, it’s quite, you had to be careful that you got 2 different, separate fires to deal heat with. And each fire has to have its own flue to get proper draft and proper draw, you know.

I would like to ask you about the administration building, why is it the only building that has… I don’t know. They wanted the, they wanted the glass to get the light in the guess. I was told to do that when I worked on it. Let’s see.

It seems to me there’s a lot more glass in it than any other building.

Oh well, that doesn’t make any difference.

The more show it off. 

That doesn’t make any difference.

Oh. 

Some buildings have more glass then others or visa versa, you know. I think there much have been a need for it at the time or they wouldn’t have put it on.  Why your benches with trees decision?

Well, that was a question we talked about earlier when we discussed the benches and then we pretty much figured that furniture in the Superintendent’s house was bought by Mrs. Canfield.

Yeah. No, I didn’t do that, no. I know we didn’t do that. No, we did limited furniture. They probably did a lot more up at Timberline where they had more crew. That Timberline was a one shot building. Everything was centered around it. All the money went into the building, furniture, fixtures, we had diversity, we had, a lot of the crap. You can compare Timberline, but you’ve got a specialty there of a focal ski winter object on a choice location. CRLA had none of that.  All they got, CRLA has got a lake, period. Timberline has a feature. That’s why it draws so many people, they come up, you know. So, the more you draw, the more they will be able to spend to fix it up.

Well, I guess this next section then, you know you talked about that campground you designed a Lava Beds. And I guess I was wondering whether the Park Service had standard designs for picnic tables and camp stoves or you did a lot of experimentation. 

Oh yeah. We’d had a standard design, we saw the things, we tried them out. We got that issue. They never sent us instructions about what, we used our own judgments. They used to have a specialist that came out from Washington. They were worried about fire places for campgrounds. We did more damn experimenting with him to build these fire places. Odd shapes, uses of rock. And we’d build them and he didn’t like them. And we had a cast iron crate for with the heat on and that didn’t work. They made a simple thing so complicated that you couldn’t get a fire started! And we just eventually used a grill placed on stone, simplified, you know. Some of these fire places got awfully complicated. God, they got terrible. My wife used to get at me for worrying about the details. I said, “Well, I got to follow the damn drawings.”

I guess that last question.  

What’s that?

About the camp units at Lava Beds being similar to those at CRLA. Did a lot of the campgrounds that you designed have a lot of similarities; did they tend to be the same layout?

No, I think we had variation. Flat ground, bush, stones, and they used stones to mark the campgrounds or the parking area. We used, they were simple. Did you know any of the naturalists at CRLA? I knew a couple of them. John Doerr, and I think Schwartzlow was up there for a while. I liked John Doerr, nice guy.

He and … a lot of the reports were to Kittredge who was in San Francisco office. 

Oh yeah, I think it was Ward Webber, that’s right. He was, yeah, he lived in Berkeley. He was under Kittredge. We used to go up and see him now and then. A nice, quiet man, you know, well liked.

And I guess this last question about did the various architects have different ideas about the Rim Village? There weren’t any conflicts over that?  

No. I think Tom Vint and those guys just went ahead and built it, you know. I think if you were to build it now you wouldn’t get it done.

I guess it’s one of the things we’ve been talking about at the park. What it should look like.

I don’t think much ever came of it. A lot of that stuff. I didn’t pay too much attention to it.

Other pages in this section