Wayne R. Howe Oral History Interview
Part Three
Assignments as a Ranger and Superintendent in the NPS 1950s and 1960s
You mentioned one thing about going to Crater Lake: which of the parks that I worked in enjoyed better funding and which fared worse. I think, here again, we’re talked about the fact that when you’re down in a lower level, you don’t have too much to do with our budgeting or your funding; at least we didn’t in those days. I think there’s more budgeting now, down in the lower level. But there wasn’t then. And so, I really couldn’t tell you very much about funding while I was here at Crater Lake. Now, you might say, “Hey, we need such-and-such.” And the chief ranger would say, “No, we can’t afford it.” Or the chief clerk would say, “No, you can’t afford it”. This type of thing. I was very cognizant of some of the lack of funding that we had an Olympic because we even had to stop using the horse trucks sometimes to haul our horse and this kind of stuff. The first real dealing I had to do with funding and budgeting and the whole bit was when I was chief ranger at Bryce Canyon. Now Bryce didn’t get much money, but I would say that the bigger parks, in those days, primarily all of my career, the bigger parks was the ones that got the most money. Now, they need the more money, too. But, I think there has always been a tendency to slight the smaller parks as far as money is concerned. It’s a kind of “out of sight, out of mind’ type of thing. Now, I may be wrong on this, it may not prove out if you looked at the figures, but that certainly is my feeling on it. Crater Lake, I think, has been extremely fortunate to be able to renovate these building like they have. I don’t know what funding that came out of, but I think its great! It just really makes them look good. Now you asked, were we affected by the Mission 66 Building Program? You bet we were! Jean can tell you a little about that as far as Bryce Canyon is concerned.
Jean: We got to choose the colors in the rooms and the floor vinyl and everything that was to go in our house in Bryce Canyon. Then, two weeks before they were finished, he got transferred! And so, we didn’t get into that house. We got into a Mission 66 house in Sequoia later on. So we were affected by it. I think there were lots and lots of people who very definitely were affected by Mission 66 building program. As far as their own personal life was concerned, it wasn’t the right housing, but it was probably the best that we could do at that period of time. They were comfortable houses. There was a lot of things wrong with them, but they were comfortable houses. Like Jean said, the one we had a Sequoia…
Jean: And Yellowstone…
And Yellowstone. We had the chief ranger’s house there, and it was a Mission 66 house. They were very comfortable house. And there were lots of people who were upgraded far as their housing was concerned. Now, I read in my Courier –you know, they push now for housing and they SHOULD be because my gosh, Mission 66 is what? Twenty-two years ago. And we didn’t do all that we should have done then because these little house that you got up here are unique, they’re great, they’re beautiful, but they’re lousy to live in. They just aren’t houses to live in all the time. And of course, they screwed up down here in the lower areas by putting flat roofs on the house at Crater Lake (26). To me, that was one of the biggest mistakes they ever made. You’re asked questions in here of things that I’ve seen change at Crater Lake. Housing in Crater Lake, of course, is one of the things that has changed so much because of these houses down here. They may have made mistakes in the flats roofs and all this sort of things, but the houses are far better than the one we had here. You’re up above the snow. If you have people that have a tendency to get cabin fever, they’re going to have a lot less tendency when they’re living up above snow like that. And again, I said this the other day when we were on our tour and somebody said something about cabin fever, I don’t think that our age group would get cabin fever nearly as bad as in your age group now. And I mean that not as a criticism in the slightest, I just mean it’s a difference in the way people have been raised, the difference in the country itself, and the whole bit, that’s all. It just isn’t the same.
As sort of a hypothesis, at the time your generation was going through the parks, were there more people with local connections in the parks then there are now?
In some places, yes. Very definitely. Sequoia/Kings is a good example of that, because there were a lot of people with ties right down to Three Rivers, and to Woodlake, and even down to Visalia. And this sort of thing all down through the valley there. There were local ties into that area. And the same thing would come down through Grant Grove, down into that area there.
Would that have made it a little easier?
Oh yeah, I think so.
Although, like you say, I think there is something to the difference in the generations, too.
And I see what you’re driving at far as we were concerned. Because here we were here, but we could pick up and go down to Roseburg, too. Where, if it had snowed once in three years, it got a lot of snow! So, it’s a point that’s quite well taken. Why, I’d never explored it, or anything of the sort, but it could be.
Well, I just noticed the number of people here, except for the people that have some connection with Fort Klamath, there aren’t that many other people who are even from Medford who work in the park.
And you mentioned that they seem to be staying at Crater Lake a shorter time than at a lot of other places. But, you know one thing, and I think it was George Hartzog that initiated this, is that some areas are “hardships areas”. Now I don’t know if Crater Lake is still categorized as a “hardship area” or not, but it was at one time, anyway. As were parts of Rainier, and not all of Rainier. And of course, the Alaska parks that we had then. And some of these other places were categorized as “hardship” places where you were not supposed to stay there for more than a couple of years, because of the snow and the isolation and this sort of thing.
Our housing costs still take that isolation factor into account.
Now, your housing costs, of course, are a lot more. And a lot more in comparison than they were when we were in the service. At least that’s the way I hear it, I don’t know.
Well, I guess it depends if you’re permanent or seasonal. I’m in the seasonal category so I’m at $40.00 a month to live in a trailer.
Yeah, I think it does make a lot of difference.
Let see… “Did Mission 66 Building Program had detrimental effect on the backcountry of some parks?” I don’t really think so, Steve. I don’t recall any place where it would have had a detrimental effect. In the first place, in the parks that I was in, like Sequoia/Kings, Yosemite, and Yellowstone, during that time there was very little that was done in the backcountry that had anything to do with Mission 66.
In the 30s there were accusations made, especially with the motor ways, that development was destroying potential wilderness.
I would think that this would come up particularly in a place like Crater Lake because of the cabins that were built, either by the CCs or maybe a little earlier than that. There was quite an extensive network of roads. Incidentally, they were pretty good roads, too. They were not paved or anything of the sort, but they were very comfortable roads, a good many of them, to go on. And you had no problem going around them in a two wheel drive pickup. You didn’t have to use four wheel drives on any of them. I’ve been over every foot of the motor ways that we had in this park and there was none of them that I would ever have considered that I was going to get stuck anywhere with a two wheel drive pickup.
I don’t know how closely involved you were with the 1970 wilderness recommendations for this park, but does that seem kind of ridiculous in light of the history of motor ways here?
You know, I didn’t have anything to do with it, but I did look down my nose at it, what I knew about it. I thought it was kind of silly, because here you do have roads linking all over. This is not a wilderness area. And very frankly, I still do not consider it a wilderness area. I’d have to be hard pressed to say that Crater Lake is a wilderness area. The use may be that way, and I’m not opposed to closing up the motor ways… I think it’s a fine point, really.
The recommendations have just stayed on the table ever since then, and nothing has ever come from them. Even though, apparently, they’re managed as such.
Can you get through on those motor ways anymore?
Par regulations say it’s illegal to drive on them. Possibly, in an emergency situation, like snowmobiles, still allowed for rescue, but not as recreation, no.
You wrote, “What were the duties as (WASO) branch chief?” Well, I was Chief of the Branch of Visitor Activities Management, which is a big title. There were two branches there under the Division of Ranger Activities. There was a Branch of Resource Management. Lyle McDowell was the chief of the other branch and I was the Chief of Visitor Activities. You mentioned, “Did I ever have a role responsible for service policy?” Darn right, quite a bit to do with service policy which has gone far beyond what we ever envisioned. But as far as law enforcement and fire arms and this sort of thing, we had a tremendous amount to do with it. I had one man that really worked with me. I had two and three people in the branch with me, but Bob Murphy, who’s retired now- lives up just north of Yellowstone- was my right hand man. We had a lot to do with cooperation with park police and working out training and this sort of thing. The first concentrated law enforcement training was done while we were in there. We got it started both at Harpers Ferry, and at Grand Canyon. We called the park police in on it and we had regular cooperation. The park police were only too happy to do it; this was the first time they’d ever really been asked. It was the forerunner of the park police being put out into the regions, too. I presume they still are, I don’t know. We had a park policeman who was usually a captain or a major out into every region to work with park protection and law enforcement in all the park areas. So it was a start and I feel pretty good about it.
Did you help writing the CFR?
We helped. If I went to CFR, I could probably see my words in some of it, yes. Now, when you say that, you may well write it, send it up to the solicitor, and of course you have a Park Service part of the Solicitor’s Office; you had a Park Service man there, too and he would say, “You can’t do it that way”. And we worked in close concert. It was not harmony by any means, as we fought most of the time. But we did work together a lot on those. And we might write entire parts of the CFR. It might get thrown out, too but we would write them. Say Yellowstone wanted to have a specific thing for, like bears or something like this. They would formulate it there and they would send it to region. Somebody at region would look it over and say, “Well, I don’t think so,” or, “Yeah”, it’s o.k., send it on to us.” And then we would check it over. Sometimes this is too many layers, it really is. But, nevertheless, it’s still the way the service worked, and still works. And then we would be the final one that would put it into the final form and send it to the solicitor for his O.K. Sometimes it would take you six months to get something like that. It was not unusual. “How did expansion affect the NPS during the various decades I worked for the agency?”
That’s kind of a broad question.
It sure is. For one thing, there’s less funds for a lot of areas. I mean, we got a lot of areas. We were given a lot of areas, not all that Park Service wanted. But still, we got the same amount of money for all the ones that we had. And so somebody had to split the money out. The same amount of money instead of going of four places, goes to six places, type of thing.
So, would it affect small units?
Generally speaking, yes.
Oregon Caves, or John Day, or Fort Clatsop would have to really cut a very small piece of this.
That’s the way I look at it, and that’s the way I looked at it when I was in region. The smaller areas, unless the regional director or associates or the deputy had a real feeling for certain place, and could some way steer a little bit extra that way. And we were able to do this occasionally.
Some of the success that Lave Beds has had lately has been due to getting a little bit more money.
Well that’s good. We haven’t been to Lave Beds in quite a while. There were certain things that happened, I can’t think of anything specifically that was sent down here to be done, but there were some, I think, when Rouse was here (27). Now, that dog gone horse fence that’s out there on the view point out toward the north- I’ll never get away from that! Ed Kurtz was my immediate superior. There was the regional director, and there was a deputy director who was Ed Kurtz and then I was the Associate Regional Director of Operations. Actually, that’s the one-two-three. And then your other associate regional directors, you administration, and your professional services and this sort of thing, very seldom acted as Regional Director. So, that was just about the way it was. After I retired I came down here and I saw that thing, I hadn’t seen it before, and I saw Ed- he was still working, he didn’t retire for several years later- and I asked him, “Who in the hell approved that monstrosity out there?” That O.K. corral that Crater Lake has.” And he said, “Well, you probably did!” NO WAY I could have possibly approved something like that! It really is something else (28).
Jean: When it was new it just really knocked your eyes out, you know. It’s looking better now.
It’s looking better now.
The last operations evaluation we had a couple weeks ago said to get rid of it.
Oh great!
So, hopefully that will help.
Is that when Chuck Odegaard was here?
Briggle and his team.
Who was on this team?
Mike Tollefson…
Yeah, I’ve met him somewhere. He was just a trainee, I think, when I retired.
He was most recently superintendent of Glacier Bay. And now he’s Associate Regional Director of Operations.
Same job. I think I saw that somewhere.
It was almost like two squads. The evaluation teams were different people than what we had last Thursday who were here for the rim redevelopment. I forget the rest of the names, mostly a maintenance and administration kind of an evaluation. And there were some to do with interpretation and concessions, but it was a different group. Odegaard was in the one we had last week. And, of course, some of the history people.
Well, that O.K. corral should go.” Did the expansion affect the relationships with other land management agencies?” You bet it did. Here again, I think it probably depends on where you are, too. I had a hand in developing BIFC, Boise Interagency Fire Center. In fact, I just went over and dedicated it. I was coordinator for the Park Service as Associate Regional Director in Seattle with BIFC. With Washington to Seattle to BIFC. Now, I didn’t mean that Washington couldn’t go to BIFC by themselves, but they didn’t generally speaking. I handled the personnel over there. As I recall, I hired the first man who was over there, John Bowdler. I hired him for the job. He came up from Sequoia. Now, I’m sure it’s changed a lot since that time-I know it has. Rick Gale is there now. But anyway, yes, it had a lot do with that …the more expanded. Of course it’s not just the Park Service, the whole tenor of land management agencies has changed a tremendous amount over the years. I don’t know about the BIA, the BIA is—I think the old story that before Custer left to got o Montana, he told the BIA “not to do anything ‘til I get back” and they haven’t. And I believe that, because I have dealt with the BIA quite a bit. There are people in the BIA that are fine, fantastic people but it is unfortunate that they are bogged down.
They seem to have faded from the scene a lot.
They sure have. And in some ways, it’s just as well. But the BLM , I’m on the Advisory Board for the Roseburg District of BLM, they are a whole lot like Park Service people in some ways. More than Forest Service people in some ways. They’re more down to earth then Forest Service. I’ve found snobbish type people in the Forest Service. I’ve also run into a whole lot of darn fine people. In fact, one of our best friends is an ex-Forest Service, and we give each other hell every time we see each other.
Forest Service always seemed like a big city.
You get it.
And you get these different neighborhoods.
Right, you got it! It’s particularly true when you get into the supervisor element, this sort of thing. And I know that some of the supervisors, as far as the grade is concerned, are graded no more than what some of the superintendents in some of the park are. Not as much is some areas. But still, you get the feeling that, “Boy, I’m about three grades above you,” type of thing. Again, I am speaking of when I was in the service, I’m not speaking of what happens right now. I do know the BLM right now, I know the Roseburg district and I’m well impressed with it. I know a little bit about the Forest Service down there on the Umpqua, I think it’s fine. There’s some nice people, some wonderful people there. I know that the public relations has changed so dog gone much in the last twenty years. When Lon Garrison went to Yellowstone, he had to break down a lot of barriers there and he had some hard times. But, I think they’re not broken down; they never will be. But they’re broken a lot more down than they were. He was a great Public Relations man, and John McLoughlin was a good Public Relations man. He was not as gung-ho as Lon Garrison was, but the times have just changed. Now, I had a lot to do with the Forest Service when I was in Bryce Canyon and we got along fine. I don’t mean to indicate that we haven’t got along fine, because Forest Service has had a lot of problems with Park Service, too you know. So, it’s a mutual situation; neither on of us are clean on this thing. But the relations are so much better than they used to be, at least before I retired, anyway.
O.K., I think I’m ready for D.
Part Four
Administration of Crater Lake National Park in the 1970’s
Of course, you were Associate Regional Director.
I came out of Washington as superintendent of Coulee Dam and then I was at Coulee Dam for about two and half years. John Rutter, who was the regional director at that time, decided that my talents, such as they might or might not be, were better fitted to be in the regional office than they were in Coulee Dam. And I didn’t fight him too hard, it isn’t that I didn’t like Coulee Dam, we had a nice time over there, but I liked the Seattle area better, that’s all. And I was drawing closer to retirement and we did not have any stake in a house of a darn thing we went over to Seattle and we bought a house which helped us to build the house that we have now. So, that’s a personal part of it, but it did help. But my responsibilities over there had to do with everything, in those days, from Alaska to Lava Beds. So they were aimed at California and Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Alaska. It was a fairly big responsibility and I did a bit of traveling, too. It had to do with all the aspect of maintenance with interpretation, with all the ranger activities. I had nothing to do with administration per se. However, whenever I went into the field, why if there was something averse, or something was going wrong in the administration end of it, why I had carte blanche to look into that too. Not that I knew very much about it, so I would mess around with things like that, I didn’t know anything about it. Sometimes I think I was John Rutter’s hatchet man, and I know that I was in a couple of places. In fact, turn that off.
Recording stops.
At one time we were talking about Horace Albright, and what my dealing were with Horace. And I don’t mean that I knew him intimately, but I did know him fairly well. One of the things that happened with us is that about 1965, I guess it was, there was a push on to cut down some of the park staff. Of course Yellowstone was reasonably sized, I didn’t think it was too big, but they had to send in a group of people from region and other well-known personalities to see whether we were doing what we should be doing. Well, Horace Albright was one of the people that came in, of course, since he had such an association with Yellowstone, anyway. We disagreed. We sat, and one afternoon I know I talked for four hours straight to try to keep my organization intact. And I was vociferous at times, and I know that I crossed Horace a number of times. And I didn’t know how he took it all, but about two nights later we were at a cocktail party at the Superintendent’s house and Horace was there and Horace introduced his wife to me or something of that sort, I’ve forgotten how it was, anyway he says, “This …” Maybe it was you.
Jean: It was me.
Yeah, o.k., go ahead.
Jean: He said something about, “This is the fire-eating chief ranger.”
In a very, very friendly way he was joking about the thing.
Jean: He was joking!
And I think he respected it, is the thing. I’m sure that he did, because I don’t think that Horace gets mad. It’s not a feeling that Horace Albright wanted “yes people” around him.
He seemed too smart for that.
Yeah, I think so. That was certainly my feeling because I lost a couple of positions, all right. But I might have lost a lot more positions if I hadn’t sat up and really talked for them. In some ways, though, as far as Yellowstone was concerned, Horace was living about twenty years behind times. He still thought it was a good idea to have an enclosure for the antelope and this sort of thing out at Antelope Flat which is up above Tower. He thought this was a great idea. Horace never could understand why he couldn’t find a ranger right behind him all the time, too.
I know he is a lawyer by his education. Having not a natural sciences background could have made his administration, as far as the park, a little different.
I’m sure that it did.
Chase kind of seizes on that in this book (29).
I have not taken the time to read the book.
I think we’ll probably steer away from that source!
O.K.!
Let’s see, “My responsibilities as far as Crater Lake was concerned.” I accompanied the regional director on a lot of his trips, too. And I was down here several times when we talked to the concessionary, Ralph Peyton. I believe Ralph’s dead now. I don’t think it was a secret to anyone that Ralph Peyton was an alcoholic. It was well know in the Park Service that if you could talk to Ralph before noon you could get a pretty good conversation. But if you talked to him in the afternoon, you might as well forget the whole thing, because he would forget the whole thing. He would evidently start drinking somewhere around noon that was the end of it. You couldn’t accomplish any business at all. I was told this by several people and I did not initiate conversations with him. But here again, the Concessions Branch was in my bailiwick and region, too. I had one or two concessions people all the time. So, we dealt with that, too.
When you were a ranger here did you help do a lot of those reports that I’ve seen from the late 40s about the condition of the lodge?
Yes.
Of course, that would have been under Price, not Peyton.
Yes. I probably did some of them solo that had to do with what we considered the safety in the fire situation in the lodge. It’s part of the reason that I feel so strongly that the lodge should go. I talk against myself on some of these things. As for these building down here, I think there’s no way they should ever be taken out. But I do not feel that it is appropriate to have building that is right on the edge of the lake…which is the only reason Crater Lake Park exists. And that lodge had no place on the rim of it. Now, here again, that is my feeling, it also happens to be my wife’s feeling and my sister-in-law feelings, but in a sense that’s immaterial. But that is the way I feel about it, very strongly.
There are a series of reports-whether it’s fire protection, or numerous other violations that the Lodge has seemed to accrue over the years. The reports [except for Mather pushing Parkhurst out in 1920] never seemed to have much affected.
I don’t think they did. It got to be almost ridiculous to go up there to check the place in the spring of the year before they opened up and find all these things wrong, write your report, and go back twelve months later and find exactly the same thing-not that we waited that long. I don’t mean to imply that we waited all the time for twelve months to go back again-but you would find the same things again twelve months later.
Well, the concession seems to be obstinate about certain violations. There doesn’t seem to have ever have been the power to make them do certain things.
I don’t know. From the very start, and of course, starting here and having this problem with the concessions, it was almost like the concession was operating in an island within Crater Lake National Park. The bus system, the cabins, and the lodge, and the screwy stuff that they would have on their shelves inside there, the food. The whole bit just almost seemed to be that there was nothing you could do about it. It was just there and it opened up every year and it ran for three months, and they closed down and went away, then they came back again. And it was like the superintendent didn’t know anything about it, I’m sure that he did. But, of course when I was here I didn’t know that much about concessions. I knew a lot more about concessions when I came back as associate regional director. Now, another thing about concessions if from what I have heard and read and everything, I think there has been a much stronger stand taken about concessions in the last five to ten years than there ever was before.
Jean: Well, they did get the top floor closed while you were here.
Yeah, we did do that.
Jean: Later on the third floor was closed.
Yeah.
I think the longest running, as far as a controversy, was getting the sprinkler system.
I’ll bet it was, yeah. And I’m sure that we probably, within the second year, had recommended a sprinkler system. I don’t recall, but I know it was a long ways back it was recommended. We had a fire truck, it was an old fire truck, but it was capable of pumping water, that we kept up there all summer just parked out there alongside. And we would go up about once a week and we would conduct fire drills with specific concessionary people to see that they could run it, to see that they could have fire drills. We were scared to death of that place. I still would be scared to death of that place. I would no more stay in there …I’d sleep out in the street first. There’s no way I’d stay in there. And I’m sure that by now it probably is reasonably safe for something that is that old, but it’s not for me!
I won’t venture my opinion. At least on tape!
I can. I just don’t believe it, that’s all. So in answer to the question as to what of my duties affected Crater Lake, all of them did, in some way or another, because all of my duties affected every park. Now I grant you that they affected Olympic and North Cascades and Mount Rainier more than they did down here… and at that time, Alaska, all the places in Alaska… because they were the big ones, and of course the Alaska ones were beginning to come up and this sort of thing, too.
And closer to Seattle.
Yeah, right.
I’ll have to look it up, but I think ’80, ’81.
We’re talking eight to nine years then, probably. Like I say, I don’t think it should have been there at all. But you know, in fairness to people who start things like that, sometimes you don’t know what’s going to happen unless you do start something, too. How are you going to find out whether this is going to work? And I think it was a glorious experiment that failed.
Was it a widespread experiment?
It was not that wide, but there were several places that used it. They used it in the Southern Utah deal, too. Bryce and Zion were not of Cedar City because that’s where Karl Gilbert went, my superior in Washington D.C., a great man (30).
So something like a water crisis really didn’t damage that whole idea, as big as the water crisis was.
No, I don’t think so. Well, there was some good, I suppose, by the cluster being there to hold hands with these people up here, but that was about all it amounted to. When the water crisis came along, it was region that took over there, and what else could you do with something like that? You have to have the highest power that you can have when it comes to something like that. It has to be the regional director who has his hand in it right now, or his immediate subordinate like myself, or his deputy, or his engineer comes down and makes the decision as to what has to be done. Now, it doesn’t mean that Jeff wasn’t capable of doing a lot of the lower stuff, but when you say, “We’re going to put in a pipeline right now,” you better have somebody that does the ordering and gets on the phone to region that say, “We’ve got to have such-and-such and such-and- such and this is an emergency.” You do not want to have to go through somebody else to do it. And that’s when region comes into play, in my estimation. That’s when they are really there to help the place out. I was down here when this thing started, or shortly after it started, John Rutter and Ed Kurtz and I were over at Olympic when it all started up. We go a telephone call that something was wrong down here that people were getting sick and that the superintendent was sick and that most of the employees were sick. You know, there’s a little ironical situation that there were people here that were going on vacation, they loaded up their campers or their trailers with nice, fresh Crater Late water, and went off on vacation and got sicker than dogs because they were drinking the same water that they didn’t want to use somewhere else. I thought this was ironic that this is the way they did it. But anyway, there were people that were sick all over the place, including, of course people that come in here. Now it affected different people different ways, they didn’t all get that sick. But something needed to be done down here. The morale was underneath the pavement.
The seasonal employees that I’ve talked to, I’ve talked to two, said there was a real division between permanent employees and seasonal employees at that time.
The park itself was closed for two weeks.
You were talking about division between the permanents and the seasonals. There was also an organization down here called, YCC, is that what it was called? I have forgotten, it was too many years back. But it was a youth conservation group. There seemed to be a great division; they seemed to be running off on their own, doing their own thing type of situation. And they were very bitter because the felt that there were signs that this infection, or whatever it was, had broken out earlier than anybody had taken any action on it. And this may or may not well be, I don’t know.
There was some feeling that the concessionary was actively covering it up.
That was certainly the case, yes. Because he did not want to lose his business. And of course he did lose business. And, besides, he lost a lot of money. But no, he didn’t want to close up, and obviously he didn’t want to admit any fault in the fact that he kept open when he thought there was something wrong. Because there had been reports, I mean, things keep coming back to me now that I talk about them, but there had been reports several days ahead when people really got sick, that “Hey, something is wrong here, we got poisoned up there.” This sort of thing. And we had people that said they were being forced to work and they were throwing up and diarrhea and the whole bit, and were still being forced to work, I mean, in the kitchen type situation. It was pretty sad situation. And it was pretty well documented that this was exactly what was happening, too. The regional director and I came here and we saw that things were in a pretty sorry mess and we ordered our chief engineer and our landscape people down here to start working on something to take care of the water situation immediately. I stayed here about two weeks that time, and then we had a hearing on it later on and some of it was too bad because Dick Sims who was the superintendent at the time was being blamed for virtually everything that went on. Dick may have very well been partially at fault, but he wasn’t solely at fault. And he was sick, too. It wasn’t easy to make command decisions. I never had what they had, but I guess it affected some people so they just didn’t care whether they lived or died.
Jean: Well, it took a while to identify the problem in the firs place.
It did. There was still snow on the ground up there, where the overflow was.
Jean: I mean to even identify the problem with the water.
That’s right. The water tests were coming back o.k. They weren’t bad samples. I don’t recall now what the situation was there, but why this was the case.. Several samples didn’t show any high [fecal] coliform count. This is the thing, Dick was getting blamed for this, important people here in the park were getting blamed for this when they were relying on Klamath County health people to tell them what to do and Klamath Country health people weren’t telling them what to do. It was very easy for Klamath County, and Douglas County and the cities around here and Portland to turn around and blame the National Park Service and the Department of Interior and the local superintendent, and everybody else after the fact. It was very easy to do because it was a statewide scandal. I don’t know if you remember this, but it was quite well put out over the state because it was hurting tourism in Oregon. It happened early in June, here’s the start of the tourist season and it was closed up for a good month, something like that. They had to put in a new water system and it was a night and day process, it was one of those “get it out without bid” types of things, you know, to get it going, to get it done. And some of our people from the region stayed down here, Dan Babbitt, he was down here probably for three weeks straight, himself. I suspect that I spent at least four weeks down here in the summer of 1975. We had this hearing and it was pretty much of a crucifixion of Sims.
That was the in-house hearing.
Yeah, that was the in-house hearing.
Hatfield was involved with that one outside.
Yeah. I didn’t get in on that one, I don’t think. I’m sure I wasn’t here for that one. The only one I was in on was the in-house one right here, it was over at the top of the school building here, the community building. And it got to be very fiery at times. Everybody had their own ideas of what should have been done and what wasn’t done, and like you mentioned, there were seasonals who were hassling permanents and visa versa. I think that guy that may have had the horse, the seasonal who had the horse up a few years ago, I don’t know, but he was one of ones who was pretty serious about the whole thing (31). I don’t remember names. But, Dick Sims had to be transferred, there was no question about that. Each one of things that you take on as a superintendent is you take on that possibility that if something happens you may be the fall guy. And that’s exactly what happened. But I think it broke him for awhile. I know that he recovered, but I think it really put him down for awhile. He did not look at it the way I’m seeing it; you just got to take this that it’s just part of the game that if something goes wrong, you’re the fall guy.
So, was Frank Betts brought in for certain reasons?
Yeah, Frank was a pretty strong individual. Frank worked for me in Yosemite. I knew Frank very well, and I certainly pushed it since he was one of the ones they were thinking about that they would bring in. I thought he would do a good job. As far as I know, he did do a good job. He’s a good public relations man, and I think he’s a good healer. The things that he did, I don’t know, I haven’t talked to people…
His stint was that three years where he was sent here to put things right and then move.
He moved to Alaska, yeah. We were up here as private citizens after that time, because I retired in the next February or so. We got up here and Frank was superintendent. The best I know, he did a good job and kind of healed things. I think that in a park like Crater Lake that you’re always going to have some division between the divisions. I think it’s just going to happen. I don’t think you’ll get away from it anywhere you go, as far as that’s concerned, it may be quieting down in some of the places. It all depends on the people. So, it’s just the people factor that you always run into.
Any sort of structure would still break down.
I don’t think it would make a bit of difference what kind of structure. It’s the difference in the types of jobs, as you get higher up and particularly into the region, when you get to be an associate regional director. You have all these same people in your division; Why, that maintenance man that’s cleaning that restroom down there twice a day had better be just as darn good at the gal that’s taking care of the entrance fees out there at the north entrance, because it’s pretty dog gone important to do both of them. In fact, I’m not at all sure that taking care of the restroom isn’t more important, and that’s the kind of an attitude that you get into after a while, is that it all meshes together. But when you’re sitting here as a maintenance person, as a ranger, why little things…the maintenance people don’t get something done in time that you were supposed to be able to get into, or the house doesn’t get painted in time so that you can move, or something of this sort. So, you get mad at them. But maybe it was because some other ranger’s house or assistant superintendent’s house had to be taken care of before this house. So, the maintenance people get blamed because of that when it wasn’t their fault at all. And so, it just goes back and forth like this. And it’s a lack of communication, that’s all it is. But that’s been the basic problem of the Park Service for as many years as I know anything about it, is the problem of communications. And that’s my speech!
Now, what’s the question, Steve?
That might bring us to the last one, which is how the NPS has changed and we sort of addressed that, although you’re welcome to expand on that.
I think one of the biggest changes, and I suppose this might be considered a real minor thing, but a big thing is housing changes which had done a lot, I think. At least it did a lot of them time. Again, where morale is down because of poor housing, but at least in the Mission 66 and a few years right after that time, if sure helped morale a lot. So that was a big change. And it sounds like, from what I read, that it needs to be done again. And I’m sure this is the case, because there were a lot of old houses and stuff left over, such as you have up there on the hill. And there’s a lot of things that are wrong with those little house.
Jean: There are a lot more permanent employees now that need better housing, too.
Look at the way we increased in numbers, that’s one of the biggest changes since 1946. I don’t recall at all how many areas the National Park system had in 1946. I knew at one time, but I suspect that it was less than, oh probably around 200 or so. Now, my figures somebody may dispute immediately, “He doesn’t know what he talking about,” and I may not! But, the point is, now it has increased to what? Almost 400?
It’s either 340 or …somebody used to say 334 as a set number.
It has gone up so dog gone much that we do have a tremendous number of people. We have lost some of our, what I would say is a “close-knit” group, that we kind of stand together on things. The Park Service itself, I feel, has lost something through the years, but I don’t know that there’s anything you can do about it, it the point.
It seems to be an agency without a “set track”, unlike some of the other ones. So it’s in danger of fragmentation.
I think you put it very well. I know that probably in the ‘50s, from ’50 to ’65 was probably our most productive years as far as the Park Service concerned because I was in the field in more increasingly difficult jobs and with jobs where I could make a difference. I don’t think you really make much of a difference in the Washington office. Really, the Director is about the only one that makes a direct difference there because he’s political, is the thing. The rest of it, you do work all right, but I’m not sure you change the course of human events that much. But as a chief ranger at Yellowstone, or assistant chief ranger at Yellowstone, I think you actually can make some changes. I’ve had people tell me from Yellowstone that they wished that some of the things could be done again the way they were when I was there and when my assistant chief at that time, Ken Ashley, was there. And they’re people that have been around for quite a while, so I feel pretty good about that. But, there’s so many things that you can’t do a darn thing about. It’s almost kismet, “so what do I do?”- Type things. If just rolls along. And the fact that the Park Service has increased, has gotten so much bigger, has so many more areas and so many different type of areas. The maritime deal that was in the last Courier was something that.. We never heard of such a thing. The recreation area came in, the Gateway East and Gateway West, why we would have gone stark raving mad if that had been mentioned in 1950 (32). For a long time I didn’t think we had any business being in the recreation areas, I’m still not quite sure that we have.
It may have been one of the Wirth’s ideas to expand…
I think it was, yes. And I’m not saying that he’s wrong because a lot of them have proved out to be fine areas that the Park Service should be in, but I’m not at all sure that some of them shouldn’t be a facility that the states should be taking care of.
Mather tried to make more of a vertical arrangement, rather than a horizontal. The Park Service seemed to walk away from that and after that, concentrated on expanding its influence.
It’s almost like they were trying, at that time, to take over places to, like you say, to expand the influence, but also to grab. I don’t know whether this is true or not, because my lay history proves to me that we have had places shoved down our throats that we absolutely did not want, and this may have been the case then, too. I don’t know. Because politicians do strange things sometimes as to bring something to their home turf. So, it’s hard to say.
Yeah, that probably has to be investigated a bit more.
I have never been that high up, nor privy to enough information to know. Actually, a branch chief in Washington is somewhat like a captain in the Pentagon. Not quite, it’s more like maybe a lieutenant colonel in the Pentagon. You formulated things and you went through a lot of people, and I worked quite closely with Spud Bill; I worked quite closely with Howard Baker. I’ve written and re-written memos for Howard Baker so many times it made me blue in the face. Finally, there was one still hanging there when Howard retied and I was sure glad to see Howard retire because he’d forget the memo! It could not be re-written, is all there is to it! But it was fun. It was a fun thirty years!
Foot Notes:
- Building 129, demolished in 1987.
- Annie Springs 1934-1941.
- Building 125, demolished in 1956.
- John Fulton (Jr.) transferred to Mount Rainier in early 1988.
- John Morrison interviewed Hazel (Mrs. W.T) Frost on August 4, 1987. Wayne Howe believes Jack Frost died in Portland during 1993.
- The Prophecy Fire of August 1988.
- Of the Superintendents Residence (House 19) as a National Historic Landmark, on August 25, 1988.
- The “summer dump”, located one mile south of Park Headquarters, nears the intersection with Munson Valley fire road.
- The concessionary’s gas station in Munson Valley, which was in existence between 1958 and 1992.
- House 28, which was unoccupied from the time that Hank Tanski, Supervisory Ranger (Interpretation) departed for John Day Fossil Beds in July 1988 until May 1992.
- Lightning Springs.
- Dutchman Lookout near Medford. The other is Hershberger Lookout west of Crater Lake.
- Park Technician (026 series).
- As a National Historic Landmark. The dedication ceremony took place August 25, 1988.
- Building 5, the first machine shop. Now know to employees as “Rat Hall”.
- The previous road alignment of SR 62.
- The ranger residence (building 125) at Annie Spring, built in 1928 and demolished in 1956.
- Rex Trulove lives in Klamath Falls.
- The Administration Building was adaptively rehabilitated in 1987.
- Case incident file kept by the Ranger Division. The Jones-Culborne murder of 1952 is still on open case so the records are in the park.
- Lou Hallock died in 1992.
- Frank Bean, who was at Crater Lake from 1949 to 1952.
- Superintendent from 1954 to 1959.
- Superintendent from 1952-1953.
- Mariposa, California.
- Steel Circle. Roofs were flat on building 18 and 26 prior to 1991, and building 219, 221 and 226 before 1993
- James S. Rouse was superintendent at Crater Lake from 1978 to 1983.
- The Watchman Overlook, built in 1971.
- Playing God in Yellowstone by Alston Chase (1986).
- The Southern Utah Group was in existence from 1969 to 1972; Gilbert was general superintendent from 1969 to 1971.
- Marion Jack.
- Gateway NRA and Golden Gate NRA.
